Alsószinevér Family

Hello!

I have some Jewish-Hungarian ancestors from Synevyr and possibly from Khust, but that's not certain.

My great-grandfather:

József/Joseph/Yosef Hoffman b. 20th Oct. 1870.

Parents are Motyó (maybe Mottl/Mordechai?) Hoffman and Malka Cheimovits. When József got married with Szeréna Soór (Schor) in Turulung/Túrterebes, Ugocsa county, in February 1903, it said József was residing in Khust, his father Motyó was residing in Sighetu Marmatiei and his mother Malka Cheimovits was already "deceased" and has resided in Synevyr, so most certainly she died there.

I learned from a Hungarian researcher the Israelite records of that area have been destroyed, but I've been wondering if maybe Malka has died between October 1895 and 1903 (civil records) or if maybe any of József's siblings (especially sisters) might have gotten married in Synevyr in 1895 or later (civil records began from October 1895). Also sometimes there could have been so called after the fact birth/death records, a lady who helped me with Turulung has found an after the fact birth of Szeréna (József's wife, my great-grandmother) and it was written just one month before their marriage. I know it may not have been a regular thing to do though.

During research, I have found Leib Hoffman who got married in Satu Mare and parents are written as Márton Hofman and Mali, both from Szinevér. That marriage was in 1905 and yet Mali wasn't deceased. Maybe it's a cousin, not sure. It would be odd that someone's mother is deceased in 1903 and in 1905 she is not unless it's an odd mistake.

My grandfather was born in Sighetu Marmatiei, in October 1906, so József and Szeréna moved there sometime after the marriage in Turulung. Noting again, when they got married, József's father Motyó was already residing there.

Hi Dora, thanks for your post. I post my public reply here for our readers.

First of all, Hungarian researcher was absolutely right about Jewish records. They are absent for Khust and area.

Also, it’s correct that civil recording in Austria-Hungary has been started in October 1895 and civil records are available for all cities and villages.

Then, it’s also correct that in Jewish records, birth records could be entered post-factum, sometimes many years after actual date of birth.

From images sent I conclude that Jozsef Hoffman was born on 20.10.1870 in Szinever, his parents are Hoffman Motyo and Cheimovits Malka, and in 1903 he’s got married with Soor Szerena. Hoffman Leib, who’s got married in 1905, most likely is his brother because their parents and birth locations match.

Yes, Malka/Mali is indicated as deceased one in 1903 but at the same time as living person in 1905. It’s odd but it may happen, such factual mistakes in records are not rare. I would give priority to first records because it’s more exact. Really, if it is so, there is short span of time, from 1895 to 1903, which may hypothetically contain information about her death. It’s obvious that Hoffman family has been residing in Szenever for a while.

However in general it looks like family migrated from. Hoffman Motyo/Marton has settled in Sighetu Marmatiei already in 1903, Jozsef in 1903 has been living in Khust, Leib in 1905 has been living in Satu Mare.

Please check your mail, you've sent you my thoughts on this situation.